Austin Brawner: What's up everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Ecommerce influence podcast. My name is Austin Brawner.
Andrew Foxwell: And I'm Andrew Foxwell. Bonus episode. Bonus episode. Bonus episode. Bonus episode. Bonus episode.
Austin Brawner: This is a bonus episode. We are recording the previous episode. We had all 20 questions about how you can ... 20 questions you can ask yourself to get unstuck with your Facebook ads and we got through ten and we realized this is a really long episode.
Andrew Foxwell: It is. It is. Turns out that I have the gift of gab. So thank you, to my family.
Austin Brawner: So what we decided to do is split it up into two episodes. If you have not if you're listening to this and you have not listened to part one of this two-part episode you should go back to part one. Start there because we have a lot of stuff we go through already about Facebook ads and what you can do to improve your results and kind of run an audit for yourself. But, and really good stuff. Foxwell, you had somebody reach out, what yesterday, talking about how they've been using some of the stuff from the podcast to drive some results. Right? Tell me a little bit more about what happened there.
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah. I mean, I had somebody reach out saying, "Hey I did, I was able to utilize some of the ideas that you had and I was able to finally fix what I had." Which is how we got the title of the episode of unstuck, actually. So that's what this is all about. It's about getting into the specifics of what I'm actually looking at and making sure that you're getting that same information. That's where we're at.
So let's go on my list and let's start at the next one of number 11. Number 11, number 11, number 11.
Number 11, do I have too high of an audience overlap? That's a question that I look at and what this means is you're able to go into the audiences section of Facebook and you're able to look at two different audiences as long as they're each 10,000 or more and you get to select audience overlap. If the audience overlap is north of 30 to 35%, then you need to put those ads in the same ad set. So basically you don't want to be targeting the same people separately. You want to make sure that as you're scaling, one of the things is you have separate audiences that are doing different things that are from different types of people, but many times your engager look alike audience is going to be different than your website custom audience or your purchaser audience. But sometimes they're going to be the same. So you want to make sure that you're not cannibalizing yourself in the Facebook auction.
Austin Brawner: So walk me through that just one more time. So if you've got two audiences and if they have audience overlap of what percentage?
Andrew Foxwell: 30 to 35%.
Austin Brawner: Okay. Or more?
Andrew Foxwell: Or more. Yep. So basically what you're looking at ... so here's how you know this is an issue. If you're looking at your ads and you have a let's say some one percent lookalikes and you have a one percent lookalike of your website custom audience, site visitor, right? You have a one percent lookalike of your purchasers and you're running those two things, in different ad sets which is totally fine, and you can do that to a certain level. You start to scale them, they're doing well and you notice that the efficiency slows down, one of the things that you could be running into is that you actually are overlapping in the auction. So that's basically what that means is you need to put those in the same ad set and you will be more effective within that.
Austin Brawner: And we should do the same thing with retargeting? Audiences?
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah. Retargeting definitely is a way that you can think about that. You're less worried about this with retargeting, generally speaking because you will have overlap with retargeting and the audiences also won't be as big. So really this is a prospecting question to make sure that you're doing that. Now the other thing that I think is big here is talking about those different types of users and making sure that those different types of users, you're separating them out. Don't just lump everything in together. Don't just lump your website custom audience of your page visitors and your engagers and your purchasers and lookalikes of those all in one. You can separate them out. They're different types of lookalikes, but you want to check that on the audience overlap. So that's number 11.
Now number 12 is, have I tried or requested value bidding? Just was talking to a colleague in New Zealand, he just got value bidding and that's very exciting. Value bidding, what this does is finds people that are the most likely to spend the most money. So that's amazing, right? Basically, it's a limiting factor, value bidding or what's called a ROAS bid. And so it's a limiting factor in the auction. If you're utilizing a one percent lookalike or let's say a three percent lookalike, and you're using conversions, normally ten percent of your audience is going to be within that conversion campaign and that conversion objective. Out of that value is a narrower bid. It's a type of bid, basically. So it makes it a little bit smaller so you have to make sure that your audiences are big enough to use value bid. But it works really well because it finds the most valuable people. It helps you to increase your average order value and things like that. So that's a really awesome tactic that if you haven't used it, worth trying, worth giving a shot to.
Austin Brawner: Now with value bidding, that requires you uploading audiences that have, with their lifetime value.
Andrew Foxwell: No, it actually doesn't. So value bidding doesn't require that you have to do that. It actually just, you just get to optimize for value. So you're just finding people that, Facebook is finding people that it knows are more valuable based on their previous E-commerce transaction history from Facebook.
Austin Brawner: Sure. I mean the history that they have of people making purchases is insane.
Andrew Foxwell: Right. It's nuts.
Austin Brawner: Like Amazon, they know what you buy and they know the people that go from browsing Facebook to buying on Facebook and then come back to browsing on Facebook to go back to buying on Facebook.
Andrew Foxwell: Right. Exactly.
Austin Brawner: They love the lovely cycle.
Andrew Foxwell: There's brands, to give you an idea of this, there's brands I know that are in major scaling mode, major, major scaling mode, we're talking north of 500,000 a month in spend that they're pushing out there on Facebook and Instagram and they're exclusively using wide audiences. No lookalikes, nothing, just U.S. wide, countrywide and they're optimizing for value. And that's the only thing they're doing. And you get a seven-day click or a seven-day view bid with value bidding and so you want to try a seven-day click initially, for sure.
Austin Brawner: It's very similar to what Jeff Sheldon was talking about, Jeff Sheldon, he ran a Kickstarter for a company called Gather and they were targeting super backers. Which is very similar to the value bidding. Super backers are people who buy on Kickstarter. If you know somebody's bought on Kickstarter before there's a higher likelihood that they will buy again. Especially if they bought three or four times on Kickstarter. That's equivalent of a value bidder.
So tell me a bit more about bid override and number 13. What is your tip number 13?
Andrew Foxwell: So number 13, have I tried a bid override lately? So if you're sitting around and you're feeling like, man, you know things are getting a little stale on this account. The question is have you tried a bid override? And what a bid override is, is this is something that I was doing in 2015 that now is been popularized called the bully method by a guy named Tim Bard. And Tim talks about it, anyway no big deal I was doing it in 2015, neither here nor there, anyway, what it is is you're allowed to go in and you get to say, here's my bid, I have a seven-day click, one day view auto bid. Below it says set a bid cap. So you can click that and you can enter in a number. Normally a bid override would be if your CPA is let's say 100 dollars, hypothetically, you would bid like $500. Now there's also strategies, and so that basically bullies, quote-unquote, other people out of the auction and then allows your ads to win.
So this is a risky thing to do. This is not something I'm recommending you do right out of the gates. But if you've had audiences you feel like are you're not getting in front of or you feel like things are stale or you feel like you know that you deserve more traffic that you're winning, maybe you're in a really competitive space, a bid override is something that you can do to scale. So that's an interesting one. And what will happen when you do it is basically the first 72 hours it kind of, costs rise and then over time it comes back down.
Now another thing that you can do with a bid override is you can do something to be more conservative. So you can do an inverse bid override which can be if your CPA is $100, you bid override and you make it 50 and then you slowly walk it back up towards 100. So it won't spend your full budget, it's a way to throttle things, but it does help bring your ROAS or return on ad spend online. So that's another interesting thing you can try is trying a bid override. And I look at that within audits, so basically like, okay things are going well and they've started to be stale. Once they've started to be stale I'm like, maybe they need to integrate that.
I was talking to a colleague yesterday, a person that is a podcast listener, I was doing a coaching call. He had been trying bid overrides and he had auto bid running and then he tried a bid override. On the bid override he said it was basically doing okay, not great. Just higher costs for the first four or five days. So he's actually cutting budget on it. It depends on the account where it's going to work. It's not something I utilize a lot of, to be honest, but it is something I use to invigorate the scale.
Austin Brawner: When you move from somebody, you said if somebody's a CPA of 100 and you put a bid override of $500, do the idea is that it would spend up to $500?
Andrew Foxwell: For your CPA, yep.
Austin Brawner: For your CPA?
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, you're giving it more room to run. And this is basically, this is a way that I used to make sure that all of our clients would crush, basically. And this is something you've heard me talk about in Q4, utilize the CPC bid. And so it's a similar concept although you're still in the conversion auction, utilizing that bid override. So, yeah, it's an interesting tactic, it's something that if you're looking for eyeballs and looking to aggressively spend more money, it's also something you can do. Again, though, you need to be very careful with it. You need to be confident in your landing page, you need to be confident in your creative and you probably need to be social proofing because otherwise if you start spending a bunch of money of stuff that doesn't have likes, comments and shares on it or any sort of external validation, you're shooting yourself in the foot because more people are going to see it but then they're like, why do I care? So that's a big part of it.
Austin Brawner: Sure. Let's talk a little bit, well one last point on that, if you're in a position where you have a deadline, right?
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah. This is a great idea.
Austin Brawner: This is when you typically would use it, right? Over the last 24 hours, that's sort of the idea.
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, so the most aggressive thing you can do is if you have something you're like, oh I really want as many people as possible to see this in my, let's say they're your previous purchaser audience, you could, and there's time window on it, right like sale ends at seven p.m. tonight or something, you could do a bid override and then set that date. Or you could do a bid override and below the bidding area there's a thing called accelerated spend and you can click on ... it says spend and you can spend evenly as the button you can press or it says accelerate the spend and it'll accelerate it and make sure you're winning more auctions faster. So that's another way you can use this. So again, it's a little aggressive, but it's something it's possible for getting in front of the most people that you possibly can.
Austin Brawner: Cool.
Andrew Foxwell: Now on number 14, previous customers. How much do we love previous customers? This is something you talk about all the time, right? This is ...
Austin Brawner: Love them.
Andrew Foxwell: This is the Austin win back idea.
Austin Brawner: You love them. The previous customers, everything, the ability to forecast whether or not somebody's going to make a purchase in the future is defined by how much they bought in the past, when they bought and how much they spent. So, yes, 100% love previous purchasers.
Andrew Foxwell: Totally. And so the big thing, and somebody I saw the other day put this on and I thought it was interesting, put it on Twitter and said the number one metric that people should be paying attention to with their Facebook advertisements in 2019 is what's your repeat purchase rate? And a lot of times I will audit accounts and I will see absolutely nowhere are people targeting the people who already bought from them. So that's obviously an issue. Right?
So one, are you advertising to previous purchasers with new content, new products, other things you want to tell them? Right. That's one opportunity through a conversion campaign. The other thing is are you taking the ads that are going to prospecting and are you social proofing them through a page post engagement campaign to your previous purchasers. There's nothing better than when you have comments on the ad from previous purchasers that say, love it, can't wait to get more. Worked great for me. So that's our huge, huge, huge deal and it's something you want to take advantage of. Are you advertising to previous purchasers? Another big part of the audit.
Austin Brawner: And just to go into that a little bit, when you are advertising to previous purchasers, you mentioned it briefly, but you mentioned putting out other products or complementary products. If you are running a business that doesn't have complementary products or products people can buy in a repeat way, then you don't need to advertise to them. It's not going to be something that's going to be helpful for you if you got a one and done type purchase that they're only going to buy one there. That's the only thing that's ever going to happen. Well then we don't recommend advertise to previous purchasers but I would recommend figuring out a complimentary product and find something, build something to be able to sell to previous purchasers because that is where you're going to be able to, if you're having trouble scaling your business, probably has to do with the fact that you just have one product.
Andrew Foxwell: Right. Right. And that goes kind of into number 15 which is, have they tried product bundling to bring up the AOV? So basically one of the things I'll see when auditing accounts is they'll say my ROAS is really low. My return on ads is really low. I can't break a two. I can't break a two X. Okay. All right, well the next thing I'm going to look at is what's that average order value? What's the price of the product?
There's a company that we've worked with and really helped them grow with another agency we work with, they sell deodorant. Great product, low AOV, right? So now all they're doing is they proposed to this particular client, the agency, and they accepted and they're now selling six packs. That's it. That's all that they sell online. That's really what they push. You can buy individuals later, and if you click further into their site you can buy individuals, but most people want to buy the six-pack right out of the gate because it's discounted heavily. So it's much cheaper just to buy six of them. And if you don't like it they have a 30-day guarantee back. You can send them back.
That's a big part of it that I look at which is if the return on ads-ment is low, has this person tried product bundling? Have they tried actually putting together things? Another client you and I know well, they sell baby clothes. Well one of the things they were putting on their Instagram, they were putting outfits together but they were never selling those outfits together on their website. Makes sense, if you think the outfit's cute, you might want to buy the whole dang thing. So trying that. And then we started advertising those outfits and those started to do well.
So product bundling to bring up the AOV is another part of it.
Austin Brawner: I got a couple, I got two more examples of that. Because I think this is a really, really important thing to think about, especially ... so I'll give you an example. There's two skin care companies that I've worked with and they've both had, they both had different strategies, both equally successful on Facebook advertising. One of the strategies was like you said, a bundle. They bundled, and they moved their average order value up north of like 160, so they could really spend to be able to bring people in. And they pretty much only pushed the bundle. That's it. It's a full skincare package bundle, that works for them.
On the flip side, another company I work with took the complete opposite path, and they actually went down to pushing a free trial. And the free trial plus shipping. The difference between the two of ... the goal was exactly the same which was be able to get conversions at a price they could afford, and the free trial allowed them to get conversions extremely cheaply. The product bundle allowed them to get conversions at a higher level and they both worked. But if you are struggling those are two strategies you could look at and more often than not though, the product bundling, unless you have a product that can be a free trial is going to be the one you're going to end up on to try to increase ad for shorter value.
Andrew Foxwell: Totally. And that's a really going point. Yeah, a lot of times I think when you something like a free plus shipping, it's not a bad idea, can totally work. You get a ton of people in the ecosystem, but you're not doing true cost accounting on that, right? Of what you're, of all the stuff you're sending out and then all of the administration you have of ... getting people to sign up fully. There's a lot of stuff that has to go into that. So it's interesting. But yeah, that's the one thing I look at, if their ROAS is low it may be that your strategies are doing really well and your ads are doing well, your audiences are doing well, right? But it could be that the AOV, you're just not making that much money. So how can you do that?
One other client sent people into a product page that was a, excuse me, a best seller page that was not just of best sellers it was of basically their best sellers, hypothetically, that had ... it wasn't their true bestsellers, it was the things that had the best margins on. But they said it was a best sellers page. And that did really well. So, not saying you need to be disingenuous, but something to think about in terms of bringing up that AOV I think is really smart.
Austin Brawner: I say, if you're going to do that you should not say, these are the products with our best margin.
Andrew Foxwell: No you shouldn't say that.
Austin Brawner: The best seller sounds a lot better.
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, correct. Yeah, exactly.
So then the number 16, am I remarketing to engaged users? Remarketing to engaged users is something I don't see very often. You can create engagement custom audiences on Facebook and you can create lookalikes of those engagers. And you can create the engager audiences, engager custom audiences from Facebook and Instagram. So you're kidding yourself if you think that your Instagram engagers and your Facebook engagers are the same. They're not actually. They're very different.
Yesterday I was speaking on a coaching call to a guy and he sells pet products. Well, he gets a lot of engagement. His Facebook engagers are average aged much older than his Instagram engagers. Makes a lot of sense, right? So creating lookalikes of those is a big deal, but really the core rule is are you utilizing those in the middle part of the funnel. A lot of people are going to see your ad, they're going to comment on it, they're going to look at the comments, they're going to like it and then they're going to leave. They're not going to go to the site but they're going to be intrigued. So if you're remarketing to those who have engaged, that can be a really, really smart thing to do and that can help build out a middle part of the funnel for you.
Austin Brawner: The MOFO.
Andrew Foxwell: The MOFU.
Austin Brawner: MOFU. Not MOFO, MOFU.
Andrew Foxwell: Exactly. Now number 17, what does my age report breakdown look like? This is essentially looking at your advertisements. If you go on the Facebook ad manager and you go, there's a campaign ad sets and ads within your ads manager, those are the tabs. And then there's the account tab on the left. If you click on that account tab and you scroll all the way to the bottom, on the right-hand side you can click into breakdowns and you can click into the breakdown menu and break it down by age and gender. Okay.
And so this is essentially one thing I like to do in audits is a lot of people have their ads targeted 18 to 65 or they'll have them targeted at something like 25 to 55 or whatever, who knows. But they're not necessarily separating those two things out. And one thing you can do in terms of a horizontal scaling methodology which is adding more components to your ads is splitting things by age. Or you can refine things by age. Maybe you're realizing that man, I've been advertising to people 65, excuse me, 25 to 65 plus for a really long time and I've spent $300 or $3000 on people that are 50 and older but their CPAs are like 40% more. And you can understand where your, where those boundaries are. So looking at that age report is a really, really helpful thing to help guide. Obviously, you're targeting and it can also help guide the refinement of that targeting.
Austin Brawner: Do you see when you're looking at the ... so walk me through it just one more time, just exactly how to do it because it was quite quick. When I'm in the Facebook business ...
Andrew Foxwell: You're in your ad manager. Yep.
Austin Brawner: Okay. In the ad manager.
Andrew Foxwell: And you're in there.
Austin Brawner: Where do you go from there to specifically find it?
Andrew Foxwell: Totally. So you're in ad manager and you're clicking on that and then you go into, you see on the top of your ad manager, it says campaign, ad sets and ads. Those are the tabs you have. And then the one to the left of that says account overview. And the account overview is the one you want to click on. And this gives an account overview of everything that's been going on. And so if you scroll down all the way to the bottom you'll see your core data. It says account name, it says the name of your account and you can see on the right-hand side of that, it says breakdown. And you can click on breakdown and you can go to under by delivery and click on age and gender. And this will give you within the time window you have set in the upper right-hand corner, a breakdown of the performance by age and gender. Which is pretty interesting. So that's where that's at.
Austin Brawner: Awesome. The reason I'm asking is I'm doing it as you speak, Andrew to see, just to see how it's going. So that makes sense. Tell me a little bit more about number 18.
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah. Number 18, what is my ad to cart to purchase ratio? So this is a huge one. What is the ratio of people that have added a cart to purchase? Do you know what that number is. It's not a number that Facebook reports but it's a number that I like to look at and breakdown and put into Google sheets or wherever you want to put it in Excel or whatever. And a lot of times you'll be able to see, it depends on the client but a lot of times you'll see that there are, it's usually around a 20 to 30% A to C to purchase ratio. And what this can help you do is sometimes you'll have ... it's a gauge and so you'll be able to have ads that are running that maybe haven't had a conversion yet, in the first 24 hours, but maybe the A to C, ad to cart purchase ratio is in that 20 to 30% number, whatever it is that your threshold is that you're looking for. And if it lines up to that, then you're doing the right thing.
Then basically you can let that ad set run a little bit longer. So that's an interesting thing and you'll be able to start knowing, okay this is what my prospecting A to C to purchase ratio is, this is what my remarketing A to C purchase ratio is. So that's basically what I'm looking at. Looking at the numbers there because sometimes I'll also see that people have shut off ads prematurely and I'll be able to prove to them the efficiency of that by saying, okay you had a really good ad to cart to purchase ratio here, but it was from latent conversions that came in later. So that's another thing that I'm able to say, hey this one is something you can duplicate and turn back on again. So that's a big one that I really, really like.
Austin Brawner: Interesting. Go ahead, 19.
Andrew Foxwell: 19. Have I tried campaign budget optimization? My lovely one. Now we'll do a whole episode on campaign budget optimization tactics at some point but campaign budget optimization is really working for a lot of people right now. It allows you to, and you heard us talking about campaign budget optimization in the episode with my colleagues about Q4 and what worked there. And basically what it does is allows you to set that budget at the campaign level and you build ad sets under it. So if you're running things and you haven't put them into a CBO I would recommend doing that. I'd recommend trying no more than four different audiences or ad sets in a campaign budget optimization and then letting it run on auto-bid if you have that going. And make sure that you also are social proofing the ads across those.
And the reason I think this is working right now is Facebook treats these ads differently. It treats them better in the auction and allows spend to be more evenly distributed usually across the performance of the ad sets. Now some people have said, Facebook chooses things a little too quickly and so there's definitely an imperfect science to it but if somebody had not tried it in their campaigns, this is something within an audit I will always mention.
Austin Brawner: Awesome. Well, talk about the last one which I think is very important in something that when I've looked through ad accounts when we had the Facebook intensive here in Austin, last year, came up quite a bit. Which is naming conventions. Can you talk through what do you look for and what people should be thinking about with naming conventions.
Andrew Foxwell: Yes. Absolutely. I will just say that there's never, it's very common that when I start to audit people's accounts the first thing they say is, I'm sorry. I'm like, you don't need to apologize to me, this is what I look at all day. And the thing that's challenging about it is there is no naming convention and if you don't know what's going on, that's a problem. Because if you don't understand the naming convention, you don't understand how to find it, you're going to be lost. So do you ... a lot of it is helping people understand they just need a naming convention. They don't even understand get a handle on what's happening. People have too many ad sets running, it's not ... it's like what's even up? I think, yes, you want to get a naming convention installed and you want to make sure you're doing one of two things.
The one thing I like is making sure that as a minimum you're putting at the campaign level whether it's prospecting, middle of the funnel, or bottom of the funnel remarketing. So at a minimum you're tagging it with like what it does in the funnel. The other thing that you can do is you can do TOFU, MOFU, and BOFU, right? Top of the funnel, middle of the funnel and bottom of the funnel. You can also go through, and I like to do the date in front of every single campaign ad set and the ad. I just write the date, one, whatever the date is. Five, one, 19 or whatever. You can write it out, you can also just actually write the date. It's up to you, whatever makes sense, but I like to do it by numbers.
Now the other thing you can do is you can also number them. So you could say, let's say, you could say two is prospecting and three is remarketing and four is middle of the funnel and five is engagement, so everything that falls under those objectives, you put that number in the front so that you're able to filter by that within your Facebook ad results. So that's basically it. There's a ton of different ways to do naming conventions, my bottom line is look, I don't care what you do on naming convention, you can do what I do which is basically putting in the date, the campaign, the objective, the audience I'm targeting and the placements. But you don't have to get that anal about it as long as it makes sense to you, that's what's important. Bottom line is you probably need a naming convention to help make more sense of things, basically.
Austin Brawner: Sure. It's more consistency versus anything else. As long as it's consistent, you know what it is and you can explain it to somebody else. We're having a conversation with somebody who came out to intensive and they were talking about how they really, really, really wanted to find and hire somebody who could take over Facebook ads because they were spending so much time in it. But as we hopped in and took a look at what they were doing, they could not even figure out in their own ad account what was going on and the first thing I said was okay, that's the first step because you're never going to be able to train somebody to come in and take over until you can even, until you can look back and see what happened. And they can look back and see what happened.
So very important stuff. Awesome tips, man. Really, really helpful. This is basically just the Foxwell audit method. What you look at when you're going through an account.
Andrew Foxwell: Exactly, exactly. So hopefully you find it helpful, let me know if you have a questions. Andrew@Foxwelldigital.com. And I look forward to hearing from you.
Austin Brawner: Awesome. Well I hope you guys enjoyed that episode. We will talk to you guys very soon. If you did enjoy the episode and you haven't, you've been listening for a while and you haven't given us a thumbs up, a review over on iTunes, we're trying to grow the podcast this year and that's one of the best things you can do to support is go head over iTunes, give us a review and smack that star ranking at five stars if you like the podcast. We'd love to hear from you guys. Talk to you guys soon.