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216: How To Hire A Marketing Apprentice Without Losing Your Mind

Posted by Austin Brawner on September 10, 2019


When I ask business owners what’s holding them back from making their next big hire, you know what they tell me?

Hiring sucks.

I’ve heard this time and time again.

Over the last month, I’ve gone through the process of hiring a marketing apprentice. I used an approach that’s helped me successfully hire many people over the years — without stress.

Today, I’m going to share my entire approach with you, so you can make your next great hire, painlessly.

We’ll discuss how to create a job post that will attract great talent, how to conduct the pre-interview evaluation process, how to conduct a really great interview, and more.

Episode Highlights

  • 6:59 The first step in the hiring process: figuring out what you’re looking for.
  • 8:05 Don’t make this mistake when creating your job listing.
  • 9:01 How to write a job post that will attract great talent.
  • 12:44 Writing your post to attract the right people, repel the wrong ones, and make it easy to disqualify applicants.
  • 15:03 Outlining the skills and responsibilities you’re looking for in your job post that connect with your company ethos.
  • 16:20 Some places to consider posting your job.
  • 18:50 How to filter through your first round of candidates.
  • 20:09 Round two of the application process: the test task.
  • 23:27 How requiring a test task helps you make the right hire and why it’s not too much to ask, especially for remote positions.
  • 25:58 The weeding out process after completion of the test task.
  • 27:14 Round 3: getting to know your top candidates before the interview.
  • 28:19 A lesson we learned at the interview stage and the change we’ll make in the future.
  • 30:07 How to approach the face-to-face interview and some questions to ask.
  • 34:17 Why we always request a Kolbe score before making a hire.
  • 36:09 Extending an offer, onboarding, and beyond.
  • 38:48 During this entire process, stay true to your company’s values.

Links And Resources

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Austin Brawner: What's up everybody, welcome to another episode of the Ecommerce Influence Podcast. My name is Austin Brawner.

Andrew Foxwell: And I'm Andrew Foxwell. Man, welcome to all of the new listeners that we've been gaining from around the world, it is continuing to grow and it makes us all very happy to have all these awesome new people.

Austin Brawner: It is, it's really exciting. I've been getting messages from people on Twitter in England, in other parts of Europe, it's awesome just to connect. If you are a new listener, would love to hear from you guys. One of the best ways is on Twitter. Search for Austin Brawner or Andrew Foxwell and hit us up, send us a message, send us what you like or what you hate about the podcast, either one, just be interesting to hear from you.

It's been a lot of fun, it's cool to see the growth and see how it's manifesting. You were recently in Bloomberg getting interviewed about Facebook and the Ads Manager how it's just basically screwing up.

Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, there's been a lot of things. It's been an interesting press run. The press is definitely interesting in talking about the platform stability and something that for those of you that advertise on Facebook have been noticing.

It's been good. Good to be in Bloomberg. It was in DigiDay and Modern Retail, and a couple of others, happy to just talk about the experience, honestly, and to get it out in the open. Hopefully Facebook will listen to us and make the platform more stable, and make it easier for us to apply for refunds and things like that. Yeah, yeah, it's been really good.

Austin Brawner: There you go man, you're building out your brag bar right now. You can pop any website.

Andrew Foxwell: I never knew it was called a brag bar, but yeah totally, "as seen in."

Austin Brawner: "As seen in," it's called the brag bar and yeah man, that's what you need.

Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, I know.

Austin Bronner: Today we are going to be talking about a topic that everybody who most people here who are listening to the podcast are going to deal with at some point. Some of you who are listening have probably been dealing with this almost exclusively, if you are a little bit of a larger business, and if you're smaller you're going to be dealing with this soon and that is hiring.

Andrew Foxwell: Always.

Austin Brawner: Today specifically what we're going to be talking about is how to hire a marketing apprentice. This episode is going to be really, really impactful if you're a founder or a director of marketing who is doing the marketing yourself in the business and needs help and support.

Over the last month I've gone through the process of hiring a marketing apprentice and as I've been going through this I've been documenting it, talking about in the Coalition about what we're doing. A lot of people have been reaching out asking for a copy of our job posting because it was a really compelling job posting. Today we want to share what that whole process that we've been following so that your next hire can be really, really good and also can be painless because, let's be honest, most people believe and feel like hiring sucks.

Andrew Foxwell: Mm-hmm, definitely. I think the thing that's fascinating about this to me, because we were talking about doing an episode on it, is how many applicants did you get for this position?

Austin Brawner: 100s.

Andrew Foxwell: Right. That's wild, it's crazy. We've helped people higher and that's a little bit of sometimes what we do is help them find a Facebook person. I'll at most help these people get 10 or 15 people they could talk to. But the fact that you had 100s I think speaks to the process, which is why it validates what we're talking about today.

Austin Brawner: 100%, that's basically what we're going to go through. Today we're going to cover how to create a job post that will attract great talent, how to conduct the pre-interview evaluation process, how to set up and then conduct a really successful interview, and then finally, we'll share some tips for setting your new employee up for success.

I'll be honest, this episode this has got basically information that has taken me years and years to learn a lot of mistakes, so I think you guys are going to really, really enjoy it.

Andrew Foxwell: Awesome, well let's get into it, man. Step one, how to create a job post that will attract great talent, what are the ways that you framework this?

Austin Brawner: Sure, really the first thing to start with is figuring out what you are looking for. We were looking for a recent college grad who could come in, join our team in an entry-level role and be focused mostly on marketing. We know this person is going to need to wear a lot of hats and our main requirement was that they had solid writing skills, and that was our goal, somebody who could write. We're a remote team, so written communication is really, really important, so that was our goal.

That's the first step and then once you had the idea of who you're going to be looking for, you need to set a goal for your job posting to get responses from as many qualified applicants as possible. I want when I'm putting on a job posting at least for this type of a role which is like a marketing apprentice role, not a lot of experience, I want at least 100 applications because I know that if I'm casting a wide enough net I'm going to find some really, really quality people there.

I see a lot of people making mistakes when they're going through the job posting process that they spend a lot of time writing really good copy on their website, and for product descriptions and for ads, but they don't take enough time to write sales copy on their job post to make sure that they're attracting the right people, and at the same time, equally as important, repelling the wrong people that you don't want.

Andrew Foxwell: Sure, it makes sense. It's just like having a thing on your website that says this is what we do, this is what we don't do, and this is specifically the types of things that we're looking for.

Let's walk through that job post. What are the keys to this? I know that obviously, keywords were a lot of it, talking about the company is another part, but what else did you include in this specific job post?

Austin Brawner: When I'm writing a job post I think person first. I'm not writing a job post "looking for a marketing apprentice to join our company," no. It's focused on the person who we want to attract. I'm writing a job post directly to that person, thinking of a specific person in mind and writing that copy. Then some of the keywords that I'm using, I'm calling out people specifically.

My call-out is "Dear future entrepreneurial superstar." I'm calling out somebody who wants to be in an entrepreneurial company. I ask some questions, "Did you just graduate? Are you in high demand for your skills but don't want to end up as a cog in the wheel of a large company?" Initially, I am calling out the people that I like, that I'm looking for, and repelling the people who want to work at a large company.

I say, "Do you want to start your own company but you're not sure where to begin? Would you like the opportunity to live and work abroad, but don't want to come home from a year of teaching English and be behind in your career?" Those are the first questions I'm asking because those are the type of people that I would like, someone who likes flexibility, who wants to work at a small company, and who wants to be in an entrepreneurial environment. That's my goal because I find at a small company like ours that's who is going to perform better right away.

Andrew Foxwell: Definitely. You said these are the things you're looking for, you're using language that they can identify with very clearly right off the bat.

Austin Brawner: Yep.

Andrew Foxwell: Then you basically say okay if this is who you are then you go into talking about who you are, and you talk about the mission of what you're doing and that type of thing, right?

Austin Brawner: Exactly, go right into continuing to talk to them, telling them about the opportunity, go into personally who I am and what I've learned up to this point, tell my story. Then I go through what I call an expectation setting part of the job post. I'll go something like "Truth," what I say is, "Your formal education doesn't prepare you for the reality of starting and running a business," which I totally believe in.

Then I call out and I say, "Here's the sad reality, colleges these days get a lot of criticism about leaving graduates with too much debt and not enough job opportunities. While it's a valid criticism, it doesn't tell the whole story. Where they should be receiving criticism is for leaving graduates without the skills to build their own company."

I talk about my own learning of entrepreneurship and how it didn't happen in college. It goes back to the whole point of this job interview, job posting, which is the most important thing, attract the right people, repel the wrong people. The wrong people should look at this thing and be like, "Nope, not for me." Saves you a ton of time.

Andrew Foxwell: And you're talking about the situation that they're in.

Austin Brawner: Exactly.

Andrew Foxwell: What you're doing is it's narrative storytelling and you're saying this is the situation you're in, this is where we are, this is who I am. If you want to do what I did, which is work alongside these companies and work for me that helps these companies, you're going to learn at a rapid rate more than you ever would trying to do this on your own and banging your head against the wall.

Austin Brawner: Exactly.

Andrew Foxwell: That, I think, is huge because it's an emotional appeal.

Austin Brawner: It's an emotional appeal and this work in any different ... I'm talking about hiring a marketing apprentice, and this type of a role if you're a small company, this type of a job posting works well to hire that type of a person.

But for any job post you got to really figure out what are the things that attract the right people for the job and what are the things we repel the wrong people and dial into that. That could be customer service, anything, but writing people first, super important.

I always, a couple checklist things in a job post, I always have disqualifiers on my how to apply section. Attention to detail is really important for me so I always have a checklist of things that need to be done, including some sort of a tripwire word in my job posting. I'll say, "Include the words pink Cadillac" in the first paragraph of your cover letter.

What's really nice about this is I can immediately, if people are turning in their application and they don't follow the instructions, I filter them out.

We always set up a Gmail address specific to hiring. A lot of you will probably already have this, but for us it's and we will set up folders for different rounds of our interviews. But we're going to get into that in a second in the different round than how that works.

Andrew Foxwell: You basically say here's what I'm looking for, here's the story of who I am and the skills you're looking for. Then you go into who this is not for and you talk about the fundamentals of what you are looking for even more, talking about what makes them the best, this person and their love of marketing in this particular thing you're outlining here in the job description. You're talking about character, not position that you're hiring. Talk about these three sections that you have in this job post.

Austin Brawner: In the job post these are really, really important sections. I always bullet point out the skills that we're looking for. For me, the number one thing is someone who's hungry to learn about marketing entrepreneurship, that's by far the most important factor.

I'll list out who this is not for and that's someone who thinks that learning is over when school is over or someone who doesn't believe that how you feel in the inside directly correlates with how you perform in life and in business, or someone who is only motivated by a boss telling them to work harder. Those are things that I'm just put in there as if you associate with any of those it's not going to be a good fit for this position.

I talk a lot about what some of the responsibilities will be and then give a breakdown on our company values, which is we believe in flexibility and personal productivity. You should be able to create your own schedule, you should be all these things that are in our ethos I want to come across in the job post, and it's a long-form. It's probably three or four times longer than any job post that I saw posted on any of these sites that I was competing with other companies for, for candidates.

Just to go into where we posted it, once we wrote it all out in Google Docs we then posted it on all these different sites. For us, we were hiring for a remote position and we had a lot of success. We posted on It changes what you get good results from, but I had great results from I posted on Dynamite Jobs. Honestly, did not have success there. I was a little bit disappointed.

We put it on Handshake. If you're looking for a new college grad that will connect you to all the colleges in the U.S., but you need to create an employer profile. We posted on Craigslist as well in cities with major schools, also with lower cost of living just because if you're working remotely there's a huge difference between New York and Madison, Wisconsin, for example, great college town.

Those are the places that we had a lot of success. We also posted on Indeed, got basically nothing. The other places I've seen that you can post are Angel List, E-Commerce Fuel, Flex Jobs, Remote Ok, those are the other ones that I've seen. But we didn't specifically post on that. We had a budget of $1,000 for this job posting and for advertising for it.

Andrew Foxwell: We Work Remotely sounds like it was the best one, which is interesting. Some of those bigger ones didn't sound like they worked as well.

Austin Brawner: It was rough. Indeed, if anyone's been hiring off of Indeed I don't know how you do it. We just go really ... It was just not good. In the beginning, it was a lot of people believed that hiring sucks. If you're posting on Indeed, yes it does, at least for this type of role.

Andrew Foxwell: Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, right. It's interesting, now you have people that have applied, you brought them in and now you have them in the pre-interview evaluation process and you had a ton of candidates respond. Now you got to weed through this. What are the steps you take to weed through this? I assume the pink Cadillac is a filter the first one, the cover letter?

Austin Brawner: That's a filter, yep. Yep. For us, the pink Cadillac was a filter. We said that people should combine the cover letter and resume into one document. If they didn't answer any of the questions that we'd outlined in the job post they were removed, and anybody who had a really brutal resume and cover letter and formatting issues.

We had, I think, 180 candidates, maybe 190, and when you get that many people applying for a job you got to be critical in the early rounds and you set up a couple folders in Gmail, and you say everyone goes into round one initially, and then if they don't pass the initial test they get moved around one no, if they do pass it they get moved around to right off the bat.

Andrew Foxwell: Got it, okay. Love it. They're getting into this, so now I'm looking at the round two piece letter that you sent saying, "Hey, congratulations, only 11% of people who applied for this position have gotten this far. What does it mean for you? Here's who we are more in-depth. Here's exactly what we are doing." You name your name and you give the name of your project manager, and then you talk about here's the next step to advance to round three, so let's talk about that.

Austin Brawner: Really it depends on what you're looking to do but we always have basically three rounds and an optional fourth round. Now in the second round it's our test task round. For us, writing is very, very important, so we asked that if you're moved at the second round, and we cut a lot of people in that first round who didn't follow the instructions, then the next goal was for them to write a short blog post.

We gave a realistic deadline of about four days that they could turn it around and in the email that we sent to move them on my goal was two things, it was to share a little bit more about the company so they could become more excited about the role. Then secondly, it was to give clear instructions for how to move to the next round.

We gave them a couple podcast episodes to listen to and we said very clearly I was like, "If you listen to this podcast episode please ask yourself these three questions before doing any work: Can I get behind this line of thinking? Which is our line of thinking as a company. Am I more excited now than I was before researching the position? Do I want to take on a role within a unique and fast-growing company?" Basically I said "if you answered yes to the above questions, then go ahead with the blog post," but this whole process is find the right fit, not looking for always the most 'on paper' decorated person, it's really the right fit for the company, which I think is really, really important. I think it can be lost in the hiring process, especially early on if you're just looking at resumes often it doesn't show you whether that person is a good fit for the business.

Andrew Foxwell: Here's what I like about this process because you were talking about this, so I said it would make such a great episode, is because you're doing remotely what Matt and Meredith talked about when they talked about hiring for Boardwalk t-shirts, early episode that we did. They talked a lot about hiring and how one of them would do the question asking in the in-person interview to work in their warehouse and the other one would watch the emotions of that person. That is something that you're doing here.

You're watching the way that they respond to things. You're watching the timing of which they respond to things, the quality of which they're reading things, like you said, detail-oriented. You're getting a sense of who this person is, which I think is incredibly cool.

Now, that's why you've landed with such great candidates because you brought them through this process and it's not hard what you're asking them to do, it's just following instruction and a real person that's going to be a good fit is going to do all these things probably really, really well and that's why you hopefully found a good person, maybe we'll find out the end of this, but I think you did.

Austin Brawner: To just follow up on what you're saying, no it's not incredibly difficult what needs to be done. It's like write a blog post, follow instructions, that sort of thing. But what it does is it achieves two goals, filters for the correct people because people that don't want to do this thing or aren't excited about it aren't going to do it. Two, it sets you apart from all the other companies that are hiring because I've had routinely people in the interview process thank me for being like, "Hey, this was actually really fun. It's like a really fun challenge to go do all these things and it stretched me a little bit."

I think we think too little of the people who we ... Let's put it this way, the average person wants to be challenged, they really do, and we don't give people enough credit that they will step up, the right person will step up and be like this is really cool. I like the fact that they're challenging me and challenging my skills, and I get a chance to show off what I'm capable of, which is how I feel about this whole process.

Andrew Foxwell: I think that's so cool and I think that it should be fun. Applying for jobs is no fun anyway, so if through this process they discover that you are fun, and that you're interesting and you're giving them something more, of course they're going to be more jacked. The right people are going to be excited by that because this is literally the type of stuff you're going to be asking them to do all the time. You know what I'm saying?

Austin Brawner: People are afraid to hire remote employees because it's hard to get a feel for people remotely, so when you structure your process to have people do the tasks that they would be doing anyway, it gives you a much better feel on how they're going to perform versus hiring somebody with no idea how they're going to perform in a remote environment, which is the worst way to hire for a remote employee.

But I want to make sure we move it along. Once they get that blog posting, we cut things down, we get people a four-day turnaround, and we try to batch it so that we get all our applications in, we give them a deadline, move things forward. At that point, they need to write a blog post, that's round two.

After the four day turnaround, we're going to have a bunch of them turned in, the blog post, then at that point we start and we read through, and we really look through all the detail-oriented requirements that we have. We have a specific subject line. We make sure that they link it in a Google Doc. We make sure that they share a hilarious or motivating quote that they think we'll like. We have them attach the cover letter and resume from round one. It's detail-oriented stuff that keeps the right people in the game.

We have them go through this process and then we filter down to the people that we're interested in interviewing. When you have 180 you try and filter down and maybe get 10 people that get to this round, get to this level, because you can be a little bit more lenient on the number of people who can write the blog post. But after that it's like you're going to know right away the ones who might be a good fit and the ones who are not a good fit.

That moves us to our next round, which is we want to get to know them a little bit before our interview. What we do is, again, video is a big part of what this role is going to be doing, so we ask a couple questions and we say "record a short video, under three minutes, answering a couple of questions that will help us get to know you a little bit before the interview process."

The reason we do this is because tech-savviness ultimate pet peeve is not being tech-savvy. If you're working for us, just being able to use Google Docs, being able to record videos, stuff like that, it's really, really important. We ask people a couple of questions and we have them post it on YouTube unlisted, send it to us. At that point, we can watch the videos and we can then decide if they're a good fit to move to the next interview round.

Now we made some mistakes in the past during this process where initially we had them send a video in...this was interesting, we had them send a video in and schedule an interview at the exact same time. But what was funny was that after we watched the videos, we then knew that half the people that scheduled interviews with us weren't going to be a good fit. If I did this over again I'd probably have people send the video, watch the videos, then schedule the interview, versus at the same time.

Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, sure, same time.

Sure. That's a good adjustment. That's a good adjustment to make. I think the interesting thing there is saying if you're going to hire remote then doing the video beforehand, even if you're not going to, if you're running a company today that's an online company they should be able to record a video somehow.

Austin Brawner: Use your phone, upload it, yeah exactly.

Andrew Foxwell: Use your phone, who cares? It isn't hard. Screencast, Loom, a lot of options. It shows a resourcefulness too which I really like. It's a technical...because that's a lot of what you're going to be doing. You have to communicate with people in that way, so should be able to know how to do that really quickly anyway. I think the timing thing that it's good to always have a place you can improve.

Austin Brawner: For us, it's can you communicate through written communication and can you communicate through video and audio. That is our requirement so let's just do it in the process so we know that they can do it.

When we do our interviews we try to block. We watch the videos we're like all right, these people move forward, we try to block one to two days and lump them all together back to back, to back, to back. We try to go 30 minutes, but leave space for 45 minutes.

During that interview, it's interesting because when you go through this process by the time somebody hops on the interview with you, they're going to have a better idea of your company and you're going to have a better idea of what they're like. It's like you're going to know, because of their video, you're going to know all the basic questions. It's really nice because they're excited to hop on the interview because they feel like they've done some research on the company, listened to some podcasts, and we're excited because we've seen them. It cuts through the initial "tell us about yourself" part of the interview, which is like why are we doing that? That is really there's not a great...

I look at that part of an interview and for a lot of the work that we're doing today, running an online business, the ability to interview well doesn't translate to success in a lot of the skills that they're going to be doing on a day-to-day basis. That's why I set this process up this way because I want people to get to the interview process who are already good at the stuff they need to do in their job, not the people who are best at interviews.

Andrew Foxwell: There you go, totally. I think there's a cadence or normality to interviewing that has been around for a long time and the reality is we can change it and you did in this process. Think about the way that you meet people online, like on Twitter or something else, you follow along and then by the time you actually chat with them it's not a problem because you already know each other a little bit. You know the way that they think about something and you're already 50 steps ahead, so you've translated that directly into the process.

With the interview, once you go through the interview, what are the questions you're asking?

Austin Brawner: First and foremost, I really thank them for going through the process, and I try to explain why we had them go through a blog post, a video, and explain that is our work environment and it helps us to get to know them, and just thank them because it is a lot of work to get to that interview.

For me, some of the questions that I really like, I like to ask the question, "What process do you go through to set yourself up for a productive day?" I think this is important if you're hiring for a remote worker is you'll get a much better idea. Somebody who's worked remote for a long time, especially if they work from home, is going to have a very clear understanding of the process they need to be productive if they are a top performer.

Andrew Foxwell: Right, right. It's a huge part of working remotely. It's a huge part of working anywhere, but especially working remotely the productivity question is something that they've given thought to, especially somebody that would work for brand growth experts.

Austin Brawner: Exactly, exactly, or for you, think about your personal process that you get ready for a day.

Andrew Foxwell: Oh yeah.

Austin Brawner: A couple of other questions that I like just, let's see, "What do you know about the company based on your research?" It's nice because I have a lot of stuff online, so they can figure that out. Then just get a better feel about what they want to do over the next two to five years. Those are some of the interview questions.

All this stuff you can go search interview questions, I don't have a ton of ... go Google interview questions, there's a million blog posts about it. But that's the interview we go through, about 30 to 45 minutes. We go back to back, to back, and at the end we try to make a list of priority.

Then the next step after that, if we come down to one person we're really interested in we'll request references and we'll get a Kolbe score. Now if you're not familiar with what the Kolbe score is, it's like a test that helps figure out how you work and how you approach problems. There's no right or wrong answer with the Kolbe score, but everybody who I have hired I have them take this test because I find that it makes it easier to relate to how they may think about work. If they're comfortable with working with little information and just winging it, or if they're going to need me to do a lot of briefing upfront to get them an idea of how they can complete a project, and then they'll be able to execute it that way, if they're going to follow systems, build systems, or break systems, three different types of people. It's really interesting, if you haven't done it I would recommend get a Kolbe score.

Andrew Foxwell: I've never done it. No, no, no, it's really interesting, I'm Googling it now. I'm interested.

Austin Brawner: Oh man, you should do it and tell me. What's funny is I bet can get really close to what your Kolbe score is knowing what it is.

Andrew Foxwell: Knowing who I am without knowing the score?

Austin Brawner: Yes. Yes.

Andrew Foxwell: All right, I am going to go ahead and take it, and then we'll go through that.

Austin Brawner: We'll discuss it on a next episode.

Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, exactly.

Austin Brawner: Basically, as far as getting people up to speed, it's references, Kolbe score, then I'll send an offer letter. I like for people who are fully remote getting together with a candidate in person for the first two to three weeks for onboarding. I find it speeds up the process. But that's the breakdown of the interview process.

We typically then say there's a 90-day ramp-up period that it's like a training period that we have people go through and at the end give an opportunity for a bonus. It's like at the end of the 90 days the training is over, you're fully into it. That's our hiring process and it's worked very, very well.

Andrew Foxwell: I think it's really fun to hear all this and I'm glad this is a little bit longer flash episode because you went through how to create the job post, which I think is a big differentiator. You'll be able to share a copy of that hopefully in the show notes here. Then talking about the pre-interview evaluation process, the way you go through where you posted that job, going through the actual before the interview, getting it scheduled, going through on the actual interview, and then how you can fully determine.

What to me is interesting is you have five or six steps that are, if you think about the sub-steps under it's even more, but really five major steps of quality control. If the person is the right person they will be motivated even more by each of those steps. I would imagine the person that you ultimately hired is jacked beyond belief to work for you now, right?

Austin Brawner: Yes.

Andrew Foxwell: Because they not only get who you are, they get very clearly what you're trying to do. They're excited to learn and grow. People I think a lot of times go into the job process, they apply and then go through it and they're like yeah, it'll be good, it'll be a good job and they have to say that outwardly, right? How many times do you hear ... I think it was more rare to people being like, "I am super excited to be a marketing apprentice." Do you know what I'm saying? That's a big deal, so you brought them through that, through storytelling, through doing things a little bit differently. I think it's really cool.

Austin Brawner: It's identifying, it's getting as many eyeballs on it because it's always the right fit. For every role it's the always the right fit, it's not the most decorated person. I firmly, firmly believe that. It's just connecting to the person who's in the right place in their life to find value in the roll and create a really fulfilling opportunity for both parties, for the company and then whoever you're hiring.

I think one thing that's really, really important is you always have to, during the entire process, be true to you and to your company and to your values, and share them very clearly. I don't try to represent us as anything different than what we are. I'm like, "don't come here if you want to be at a company that's going to have an exit in a $100 million exit in a few years. It's not going to be our company, our company is different."

It's going to be, "come here and work here if you like to do good to work remotely if you like to build systems, if you like to have autonomy, if you like to work with really cool clients, and learn a lot." That's who should join us, not somebody who's looking for catered lunches at a big startup. But you got to be clear because that is what attracts a lot of people to these startup environments that have raised a lot of money.

Andrew Foxwell: Right, totally.

Austin Brawner: If you want some more information, we put all our templates and training, all the templates that we use and the resources that we have, in the Coalition. We did a big breakdown so we have all our round one, round two, round three emails, template, job posts you can take and go in, and modify. If you're interested in that and you're hiring, you head over to, request an invitation and we will get you set up. If you like this process, we got it all documented for you.

Andrew Foxwell: Nice, nice, nice. Very cool, very cool. Well thank you for going through this. I learned a lot myself and I'll follow up on that Kolbe score.

Austin Brawner: I should take a bet that I know very, very close. But anyway, thank you guys for listening. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you have been listening for a while and have not yet left us a review on iTunes it's the best compliment you can give us, just head over there and leave us a review. That really helps us out because we're still trying to reach more people, and more businesses and provide more value, so thank you very much.

Hey there, it's Austin again and I have a quick message for you. If you enjoyed this podcast I have something really exciting for you. For the last year and a half I've been coaching e-commerce business owners and marketers inside a group called the Coalition. You might have even heard me talking about it on this podcast. We have a lot of members who come on and actually share their story.

What launched as an experiment has become a game-changer for our over 150 members. If you like me and my team of expert marketers and ecommerce operators to coach you on your journey to scale up your commerce business, this is your opportunity. You can head over to to learn more. Head over to to learn more. Everything we talk about on this podcast we go into way more depth with actionable training. You can get actually one-on-one help from me to help you grow your business. Hope to see you guys inside.

Austin Brawner: What's up everybody, welcome to another episode of the Ecommerce Influence Podcast. My name is Austin Brawner.

Andrew Foxwell: And I'm Andrew Foxwell. Man, welcome to all of the new listeners that we've been gaining from around the world, it is continuing to grow and it makes us all very ...

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