Austin Brawner: What's up everybody, welcome back to another episode of The Ecommerce Influence Podcast. I'm your host, Austin Brawner.
Andrew Foxwell: And I'm Andrew Foxwell, the other host. And here we are in the second episode of The Profit Series, which is pretty exciting frankly, and I think is full of a lot of tangible stuff. How you've been helping people improve profit recently, what's been going on with your mind? How have you been thinking about this?
Austin Brawner: Yeah, man. So this episode I, well, the previous episode, if you guys haven't gone into it, is all about the roadmap for creating a more profitable and fulfilling business. This episode we're going to be talking about specific tactics, and tactics specifically around average order value. So how have we been helping people with average order value? There's a bunch of different ways, and I've got a list, I think I wrote about 12 things down here. I know you've got a list as well, about things we've seen that ... there's two sides of it, there's the strategy and then there's the tactics. And so hopefully today we get to blend a little bit of both and talk about bigger picture idea around average order value and then dive into some stuff that's actually working.
Andrew Foxwell: Perfect. Yeah, I'm excited. Well, let me just start by asking you, somebody contacts you, they join the coalition or they're working with you, and they say, "I want to create more profit and I want to increase my average order value as a tactic to increase profit." How do you start to frame this up? How do you even begin the conversation? Because I always go right to tactics, but I feel like I can do a better job at framing it up strategically. So I'm curious how you go about doing that?
Austin Brawner: Well, I think the most important thing to think about is to truly explain the idea of 80/20 and the 80/20 rule, and really break down how that can impact the way that we think about average order value, and think about pricing as a bigger, pricing is the first place that I'll start because that is a really big lever. Oftentimes we'll dive into, people want to dive into tactics, but taking a step back and looking at overall pricing and product selection is really where I feel like there's a huge, huge opportunity.
Austin Brawner: Just to dive into why I think the 80/20 rule is so important to think about. Basically what that's saying is that 20% of your customers are going to be responsible for 80% of your sales. And then within that 20%, there's going to be I another 20% of those people, which is 4% of your overall customers, who are responsible for 80% of the 20% of your sales. And that is crazy powerful, and it's something that is not, I think isn't utilized enough by eCommerce businesses. Hotels get it, restaurants get it, casinos definitely get it, they understand that there are people that want to pay, want the opportunity to purchase a lot more.
Andrew Foxwell: Right, and they love the access to it, and they love feeling like a VIP. I always remember going, the first time I actually visited Blenders HQ, we bring up Blenders often, but we're very familiar with it, there was a stack of notes on Chase's desk, and he and Blake had been writing thank you notes to their best customers and were mailing them to them, which I had never seen before. It's a great idea, I'd never seen that before. And so that, taking care of those people, was really cool right off the bat. So when you say people it's not paid attention to enough, is it that people, do you think people just get an eCommerce business going and they see orders through the door and that's exciting, and they're not necessarily thinking about how do we take care of those people? Or they don't start with that DNA quickly, or enough? If people are going to order more than $300 worth of stuff over a six month period, that's how we're going to define it. Is it an ill-definition or where do people get lost there?
Austin Brawner: Well, I think a lot of it has to do with coming up with a killer product. Because a lot of times the companies that you and I work with, they reach out because they've found a killer product and they're able to sell that on, usually, paid social like Google Shopping. And so, because of that, let's say they have just one or two products that are selling really, really well, they don't have the pricing structure or the product catalog to tap into all the different desires and needs that people have. And so they end up, you end up leaving a lot on the table because you don't have ...
Austin Brawner: There's a great example in Perry Marshall's book, 80/20 Marketing, he talks about Starbucks has a $2,700 espresso machine that you can purchase from their website, but you can also buy a $5 cup of coffee. You can buy espresso machines at Starbucks, so you can go in and you could buy a $5 cup or a $3 cup, and then also buy a $2,700 espresso machine. Because there is that person who's going to be doing that and that's where a lot of times people leave money on the table. I think about this deliberately with my pricing structure in my business, lowest priced product, $79, highest priced product, $12,500. And it goes up all the way from 79 to $12,500 because I'm thinking about, as a strategy, the fact that I have a smaller group of people who want a lot more access and a lot more hands on, and then there's a larger group of people who just are joining it at a lower level, and that's a strategy.
Andrew Foxwell: The $12,500, that's the date night with you? That's that product? That's the date night with Austin product, right?
Austin Brawner: Basically, it's two days, we fly in and work together.
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, that's right, it's the workshop product.
Austin Brawner: Yeah, that's right.
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, which is an incredible offering. Everybody that's been through one of those with you always comes out the other end and, "Oh man," they're just so jacked up. It's so many things that they've implemented and, anyway, it's very exciting. So, back to the topic of increasing average order value, let's get into tactics a little bit. What are the first things, when somebody's like, "I want to increase my average order value," which in turn increases profit. What are the first things that come to your mind that you are going to maybe recommend or strategically look at?
Austin Brawner: Very simple, one, just a very quick one is just raising your prices. I'll give you an example from a client I worked with last month, we just looked at their business, we said let's raise prices by $5 and see what happens. Sales stayed exactly the same, prices were up by $5, nothing changed except they made more money. That's very, very simple.
Andrew Foxwell: Sure. Yeah, makes a ton of sense. The one that, somebody asks me about average order value, first thing that comes to my mind bundling products, complimentary products, you look at, a lot of examples of this I think. In the Facebook advertising world there's examples of driving traffic to, you advertise for a high margin product, and that's your hero product, and then you're driving them to a page that is either a collections page with complimentary products on it, or it's a bundle that you're pushing, even though you've only advertised one product from that bundle.
Andrew Foxwell: One example that Ben Vandal from Constantly Varied Gear, Messenger Mastermind Podcast, he said what they do is they actually drive people to a page and then they just show how that product is part of a collection. So it's not really a bundle, but the other things as part of that are already discounted on that specific product landing. Which, that makes a lot of sense. We've done things similarly with customers, but I liked that right away, of ... So bundles is another one, obviously. How do you bundle products? When you think about bundling products, what's your take on this? How do you go about this successfully?
Austin Brawner: Around bundling products?
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah.
Austin Brawner: I think there's a couple of ways to approach it, it's back to pricing strategy. So a lot of times supplement companies are trying to bundle stuff, I've worked with a couple of [keto] companies that, they created starter bundles. Or they put together products that are typically aligned together and used together, into a bundle, discount it, and sell it at a higher average order, a higher price. Well, a lower price, but collectively a higher average order value, if you're buying a collected starter pack. That's typically one way to think about bundles, it's typically pulling stuff that people would buy together anyway and putting them together. And you can look at your analytics and see what products are people buying together, bundle them, change the price a little bit, give an offer, and go from there.
Austin Brawner: And you can see, this is an example, I remember from a long time ago with Dr. Axe, they were selling essential oils and they had individual essential oils, packs of essential oils, then they had the ultra pack of essential oils, which was all of them for 150 bucks. And then there was the mega ultra pack, which was $500 worth of essential oils, and they were all right next to each other-
Andrew Foxwell: Interesting.
Austin Brawner: You could buy any one of these things. That's how I think about it. We've talked about bundles so much, I remember you telling me about a deodorant company on a separate podcast. I believe they had bundled and they were actually, they went from selling one to six or something like that? Does that ring a bell?
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, they had to, from a margin standpoint, they had to bundle them basically, and they gave people a product selection. And the thing that they did that was really smart, that [Florian Litiris 00:12:43] actually brought up too, that he does a lot in Germany, is you create a bundle for new customers only.
Austin Brawner: Good idea.
Andrew Foxwell: So it's an intro pack type thing, which is great, it's discounted, it gives people an introduction to you, it raises it off the bat. It's a good ... because you can then have a nice tree or spiderweb of so many different things off of that. Okay, then you have a good email flow, you have a way that you're going to follow up with people that have purchased that specific thing. So that's another one.
Andrew Foxwell: One tactical thing too, that you can do to increase average order value that's very common is, within dynamic product ads, which are the ones that are dependent on a catalog within Facebook, you can go into what's called product sets within your catalog, and you can create product sets of only products over a certain amount of money, which is pretty cool. So that's another thing that you can do that you could use in what's called broad match, a prospecting dynamic product ad, and you could use it in remarketing, so you're only remarketing. A famous example of dynamic product ads gone wrong with no refining is one time I had a client that wanted to hire us and I went and clicked around their site and whatever. And the first thing I was served was a dynamic product ad of gift cards at one, five, 10 and $50 values, and there was just a really bad JPEG image of a gift card. And I was like, "Okay, so no one's ever looked at your catalog, clearly." But product sets and the refining of that is a really good tactic.
Austin Brawner: I think they're all super solid. And one other one that comes to mind right away is looking at your free shipping threshold, and adjusting that.
Andrew Foxwell: Absolutely.
Austin Brawner: So let's say you have a free shipping threshold, well, let's say you have an average order value of $100, for example, and you want to boost your average order value. I would look at adjusting my free shipping threshold to 25, 30% higher than whatever your average order value is right now, because it gives people an incentive to be able to get to that and boost up average order value. And then if you add a progress bar during checkout showing how close people are to free shipping, that's a good way to, good, relatively simple tactic.
Andrew Foxwell: I feel like the progress bar thing is really interesting. I certainly, if I'm on a site and I was on the site the other day for Sunday Lawn Care, which is a super interesting company, if you've not gone through their flow, it's totally worth it, it's very good. As a side note, one thing that they do not related to average order value, but it ultimately probably is, is they have you put in your address and then they say they're analyzing, and that's the landing page, it says it's analyzing a plan for you based on satellite data. And then you have to put it in your email to get the plan, which is probably the same plan for every household in America, basically. But it did feel more personal, which I thought was cool. But I was on there and it had a progress bar, I was adding certain sprays and fertilizers, natural obviously, I'm a hippie, to my cart and it said if I added another one I would get a whole six months free of this, which was-
Austin Brawner: There you go.
Andrew Foxwell: It was this crazy thing that I was like, "This is awesome, maybe I'll do this." Because it was so, it was 100 and some dollars and it was another $40, and I was going to get another 100 dollars worth of value out of it. And I was, "I don't know, this seems like a really good deal."
Austin Brawner: Kettle & Fire just did something similar to that, I noticed, on their website. They coded something in where if you, and I'm bringing it up in front of me here, so I can, this is fricking awesome, I'm going to share my screen with you. You guys can't see it, but we'll put a link in the show notes to it. So they have a progress bar on the collections page, on the collections page it says, "Add six more cartons to unlock your next prize." And there's tiers, basically, every single number of cartons you add every little tier, you'll unlock some new prize.
Andrew Foxwell: I love-
Austin Brawner: Super cool.
Andrew Foxwell: Prizes.
Austin Brawner: Yeah, it's great.
Andrew Foxwell: It makes great sense. Wow, that's pretty cool.
Austin Brawner: So if I add one, it gets me, add six more, I get free shipping after adding six. All right, let me just six more here.
Andrew Foxwell: What do you get at 12?
Austin Brawner: Lovely, 3% off. But it's crazy-
Andrew Foxwell: It's pretty interesting, yeah. What's cool about it to me is I think, it's 6% off and ... I think something like Kettle & Fire is a great example of the bone broth, because it's not like you're going to buy, you might buy one to try it, but probably not. It's at a price point where you're going to want to try different ones, multiples and things like that. So I like that idea, it's pretty interesting.
Austin Brawner: Also, it's a product you can stock up on.
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, right, it does, it makes a lot of sense. We actually had a customer last year, who's a clothing company, and they had this wholesale and the concept was a stock-up sale. And that made a ton of sense in terms of increasing average order value. And one thing we did off of that, which is another good tactic, is we took a lookalike of the people that came in and purchased during that time, and we now use that as another high power lookalike in our Facebook and Instagram ads. So that's another thing is, you could take-
Austin Brawner: Let's talk about that a little bit more, I think that's really, really interesting.
Andrew Foxwell: High-value customers generally, you could do a value-based lookalike, which is another thing, which is based on the pixel, or you can go into Shopify and download things manually, sort it, people that have had three orders and spent X number of dollars or whatever, and create a lookalike from that. That's another great way to find people that are more likely to spend more money.
Austin Brawner: Well, back to your question about strategy, that is a strategy, it's targeting products for your best customers and creating products for your best customers. And understanding that is a deliberate strategy if you're trying to go upmarket with what you're doing, I think that's also back to your question of, how to get started when thinking about average order value. It's, embrace the 80/20, look at products you can create for your best customers, what are they purchasing, and thinking about them and trying to attract more of those people. Doing exactly what you're saying, if you just do more of your advertising, to your best type of customers, lookalikes like them, that's going to help boost average order value. And again, you may not get as much volume, but you may have a lot better customers. And that typically, customers who spend more typically also complain less. And so-
Andrew Foxwell: They're a better customer.
Austin Brawner: Yeah, that's why, the free trial, tripwire offer type stuff can lead to a lot of challenging customers.
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, right, because they're just there for the freebie.
Austin Brawner: There for the freebie.
Andrew Foxwell: One that's really popular too is upsells at checkout, and there's a lot of software for those. I'd be curious of your take on the products that, of which ones you think really help. And then I'd be curious of, what are ways to think about complementary products in the cart, and how do you conceptualize that?
Austin Brawner: Yeah. So I was preparing for this, so I've got a couple of really good examples.
Andrew Foxwell: Love it.
Austin Brawner: One, I'll give a shout out, again, to Mark Arruda, Constantly Varied Gear-
Andrew Foxwell: Love Mark.
Austin Brawner: Because he's always got, he's on the forefront of a lot of this stuff. So let's start with upsells and cross-sells, and oftentimes people bundle them in the exact same thing, and think of them as the exact same thing, but they're different. And really, depending on your product, often almost everybody's going to have an option for a cross-sell, let's start with cross-sells specifically. Because I think that Mark and Constantly Varied Gear, they do an incredible job with their cross-sells.
Andrew Foxwell: And cross-sells, just for me, making sure that we're on the same vernacular, cross-sells are buying something from one collection and selling another part of that collection to that person, that's a cross-sell?
Austin Brawner: Yeas, that's a cross-sell.
Andrew Foxwell: Right, okay, I just wanted to make sure. Because honestly, I didn't know that until about maybe a year and a half ago. So that's why I bring that up.
Austin Brawner: Yeah. Well, that's a great thing to clarify, because there is a lot of confusion. It's, I'm buying, in this example of Constantly Varied Gear, buying camo leggings and also being sold a pair of black leggings, that's a cross-sell.
Andrew Foxwell: Correct, right. Versus an upsell, which would you be, you buy one thing, and you buy something more expensive?
Austin Brawner: Exactly, you upgrade it, buy a supplement and then you add another supplement on top of that for, like, "Hey, check out now and you can get another one thrown in for free, if you buy something else," something like that, an upgrade.
Andrew Foxwell: Sure, known as the double-sell?
Austin Brawner: Double-sell.
Andrew Foxwell: If I could have a podcast purely focusing on coming up with nicknames for stuff, that would be a big, I'd do that probably, I love nicknames.
Austin Brawner: Just nickname games?
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, exactly. But go ahead-
Austin Brawner: So what they do, which I thought was really interesting, is you add one product, let's say the camo leggings, boom, bold upsell happens right away and you're hit with their bestselling products. So you add one and then you're given a choice of three of their top-selling products in your size, that's right away.
Andrew Foxwell: Love it.
Austin Brawner: If you say, I take it, you'll add one to your cart. Then the cart drawer slides out, and in Shopify Plus one thing that's incredible is the ability, Shopify Plus, in any custom cart you can modify that cart drawer, a slide-out cart drawer. And so they have a slide-out cart drawer that comes out, and on top of that, the first thing before you see what's in your cart, they have a 29.99 workout manual, digital guide for workouts. And their audience is CrossFitters, CrossFit women, and so they're selling work from home, a workout guide that's, again, the margin on a digital product is incredible. So you don't need that many people to take the 29.99 guides, but if they do, you've cross-sold, first, popular products, then a digital product and that's before you even get to the actual checkout page.
Austin Brawner: So both of those are pre-purchase, and if you think about taking both of those, that's doubling average order value, almost tripling it, based on the amount that you're adding. So that's on the front end, and then you think about what people can do on the back end with something like CartHook or OneClickUpsell, you can upsell again, some sort of a product after people make a purchase.
Andrew Foxwell: Well, it's good, the digital product idea is super interesting, I think that any sort of offer at checkout is, if it's done right, it's honestly always interesting, in my opinion, even as a consumer. And the impact of that is so huge. We've talked about subscription is another way obviously to increase average order value generally, lifetime value, which we're going to talk about lifetime value in another episode, of how to increase that. But when you're that close to purchase, anything that is even mildly attractive, you're like, "Huh, that's interesting, I didn't know."
Andrew Foxwell: Because a lot of times, and I think Kurt Elster said this, probably was Kurt, I was listening to a podcast of his and he was talking about how people do look around, but not really. Browsing is common, but it's not, an average browsing session is not that, it depends on the site, it depends on the person and the vertical of course, but it's not a long time. Unless you're, at most maybe 10 minutes, I don't know, it's not that long. And so his point was, if you suggest things to people, that's going to be more powerful because they don't have to do the work.
Austin Brawner: 100%, and also let's be real, most websites suck, so it's hard to navigate.
Andrew Foxwell: It's terrible.
Austin Brawner: So you're going in, and as a business owner you're so close to your own website, it's really hard to be impartial about it. And so, yes, it's very, very, very valuable to deliver products that are relevant to people at the point of checkout because, like you said, they may not have seen it at all, which is very, very common. Tecovas Boots, a client I worked with for a while, we were talking about this sort of thing and they installed, at cart checkout, right in the drawer, if you buy a pair of boots, you can add the matching belt right there, boom, you click it and add it, right in the drawer. And it's hard to find the matching belt to your boots, you may not even think about that, but when you see it and it's like, "Oh wow, I can just add the exact same leather, as a belt." Boom, it's very, very easy and simple.
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, that's a great idea. Anything to say about that? Otherwise, I'm going to move on to a couple more tactics.
Austin Brawner: Well, let's talk about upsells real quick.
Andrew Foxwell: All right, let's get to upsells, absolutely.
Austin Brawner: I think upsells are interesting because this is something ... well, let me share one quick example about just, I put in a Klaviyo audit as an option to add when somebody signs up to become a member of a coalition. About 20%, 25% of people take that offer, we just discount it 50% right at checkout, and it's a perfect example of thinking about what people might want during that time, and that made a huge difference for us. And the same sort of thing, when you switch over to upsells, you can think about, often just selling more of the same is really effective especially if you have a product that, like Kettle & Fire, it's a stock-up type product. If you're selling toothpaste, just sell the same product, but more, at a little bit of a discount. That's a great way, that's an upsell. I like, CartHook is really my favorite tool for that.
Andrew Foxwell: Okay, interesting, yeah. That's cool. Upsells are, I always wonder, how do you think if, so just a case study, I'd be curious of your opinion on this. So somebody has, they're an apparel company and they're, let's just take, I'm Constantly Varied Gear, and I'm selling leggings, and somebody adds a leggings and I'm trying to get them to upsell, and I want to sell them a jacket, something more expensive. Or I want to sell them a-
Austin Brawner: Cross-selling-
Andrew Foxwell: Organic version of the pants to upsell them, these are $20 more or whatever. How do you display the value props the right way? What are the best ways to convince people to do an upsell?
Austin Brawner: Well, I think those are both cross-sells.
Andrew Foxwell: Those are both cross-sells?
Austin Brawner: Yes. I would say an upsell would be, somebody just bought, let's say they bought turmeric, which is, they bought a supplement turmeric. And then on the back end you say, add another turmeric bottle for 25% off.
Andrew Foxwell: Okay, so it's just more of the same? I always thought that a more expensive product was an upsell, but it actually is a cross-sell?
Austin Brawner: Well, it is, you could consider that an upsell if they're not buying the previous product. But that's really hard to do in online, to take out one version of what you put into your cart and put an upgraded version. And it's really, like you said, it's almost impossible to show the value proposition there.
Andrew Foxwell: So convincing them to buy more of the same at a discount is basically the biggest one? Okay.
Austin Brawner: Yeah.
Andrew Foxwell: Cool, that's interesting. Another one I would be curious to hear your opinion about, I did ask this question, how do you increase average order value in the Facebook and Instagram Pro Ad Buyers Group? And Ryan Kovach did say, tweak the free shipping threshold, he agrees with you on that one. Display the free shipping, and discounts once enough has been added, Florian, [Marion Court 00:00:29:40] from France had that one. Two that I thought were quite interesting, one was gifting messaging. So [Kyle Yulman 00:00:29:48] from the group talked about, basically, somebody adds something to their cart and then it's like, gift this to a friend. So it's buy one for yourself, buy one for a friend.
Austin Brawner: Smart.
Andrew Foxwell: Which I thought was really interesting, and I had seen that-
Austin Brawner: I don't know how to tactically do that.
Andrew Foxwell: But I hadn't, it makes sense, I hadn't considered that part of raising inventory value, I've seen that a number of times. And then another one that I thought was really interesting, instead of remarketing the same product, a lot of times we have the, they look at a product and we advertise for that product. You advertise for a bundle, or the set for in remarketing, versus just the product.
Austin Brawner: Smart.
Andrew Foxwell: Which I thought, both of those ideas seem smart, good ideas, have you seen those before?
Austin Brawner: I haven't seen the friend one, I think that that's really, really smart depending on your product. Especially if you have something that, obviously anything that gives you, gives somebody prestige or a sense of value by giving it to other people, that is a really great product for that. Think of a Christian planner, our friend, Victor. That is a perfect example of somebody who could easily do that, you buy one for yourself, buy one for somebody else.
Andrew Foxwell: Right. Yeah, and I think you want to just give credit on the idea of the retargeting with bundles, [Dylan Carpenter 00:31:14] came up with that idea. I always make sure to credit those people that gave me the brilliance. So in terms of, what else you got in terms of average order value?
Austin Brawner: Monogramming services.
Andrew Foxwell: I've never thought of this, but my God, how many times have, do you remember the days of, what was it L.L.Bean, they were the king of this.
Austin Brawner: Of the monogramming stuff, yeah. It's a great option, just something small that you can add and that people actually want. Not everyone's going to take it, but when they do it's a high margin product for you, so you can work that out.
Andrew Foxwell: Yeah, interesting.
Austin Brawner: You've seen people do priority processing, which is, all it is, is like, "Hey, if you add a couple of dollars, we'll take this one and put yours on the top of the shipping. We'll basically put yours out first." That makes sense. I think using a quiz funnel is another way that helps people find ... So basically what you do is, when you ask people a couple of questions about what they're actually looking for and then deliver that product, and maybe deliver it in somewhat of a bundle, people are more invested and they think that they've found the product that is more likely for them. So it's basically you ask questions and then deliver a bundle at the end that actually makes sense.
Austin Brawner: Again, every one of these quote, unquote tactics, it's very important that they actually have to be good for the customer. And that's really, really important, especially when, you think about buying tea, it's a good example. Somebody who's going to buy loose leaf tea, they might not have all the products that they need to successfully brew loose leaf tea. So during that time, you might have to ask them in the quiz, "Do you have all of the stuff that you need to have success?" Or matcha, I drink a lot of matcha, you need to have a little bowl and a little stirrer to make it actually good. And so you need to figure that out in the quiz and then give people those products.
Austin Brawner: Anything else I got on my list here? I think displaying the cost savings of adding more. So, "Buy three and this is the price," that sort of thing is one way to go about it.
Andrew Foxwell: I always think about complimentary things of the customer experience, Kombucha Kate, our friend who runs a Kombucha shop, one of her big things was she looked at her sales and noticed that a lot of her sales were coming from areas that were colder in the winter, people brewing kombucha inside, and so she came up with a product that she got developed in China, that was a heat wrap. And it just wraps around the bottle that comes with the kit, and it's an add-on at checkout, and-
Austin Brawner: That's great.
Andrew Foxwell: A decent number of people take that. So I always think about, I love to ask customers that as well, that we're working with, in terms of the whole customer experience, what are the things that they would potentially take advantage?
Austin Brawner: Yeah, I think really when it comes down to all these tactics, the most powerful thing is continuing to flesh out your product catalog because that will just continue to add, as you have more products that are relevant the cart value is going to increase because people can find multiple things that they're interested in.
Andrew Foxwell: Cool. Man, this is chock-full of ideas, I'm really lapping this up
Austin Brawner: Chock full of ideas. I would love to hear from you guys as well. What things have been working? What have you seen that's interesting? Let us know, hit us up on Twitter. And I would just love to hear what's worked for you. And anything we missed, obviously there's plenty of stuff we've missed.
Andrew Foxwell: Absolutely.
Austin Brawner: You can be incredibly creative around this.
Andrew Foxwell: Absolutely.
Austin Brawner: But yeah, so the next episode is going to be about increasing lifetime value. Again, if you liked this episode and you haven't listened to the first episode in this series, I would go back and listen to part one, which is about the roadmap to a more profitable and fulfilling business. See you guys on the next episode. Thank you so much for joining us.